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Note manipulation via note messages - Lots of potential for cool stuff

MIDI Control Controllers VST VST PC PC VST

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#1 Sacco

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Posted 18 August 2015 - 06:53 PM

I asked the guys via tech support, but I wanna make an official request here.

I can make a VST plugin with all the ATG functions so you could sequence them right inside your songs.

Besides supporting all ATG current functions I would also like to be able to control each individual string pitch by using CCs and/or MIDI note messages in fine and coarse modes.

The purpose of this is to be able to include fancy arpeggiators and  pitch FXs previously not possible in a guitar. Ranging from a slight detuning chorusy FX to more wobbly stuff and good/useful arpeggios and melodies you could use with your ATG

I can imagine chiptune C64 kind of arpeggios with each string stroke for example. It will allow for something previously not possible...arpeggiator FXs that follow your song and all notes in the arpeggios are in the scales cause you have total freedom to sequence them.

I can develop a trigger inside the VST that will start sequences upon note transients for automatic arpeggios or:

I also want individual string pitch manipulation to be able to sequence them in any DAW.....let's say I play one chord, and morph it into another via individual slow pitch shift, right on my sequencer piano roll, the pitches will change gradually (or not, used definable) like "glissando" time on synths.

Stuff like that...I see a lot of potential....to me it would be sort of a marriage between acoustic and electronics... it would be like having a synth but the waveform generators are real strings...6 of them.

NOTE: This has noting to do with being able to control MIDI synths with the ATG....is quite the opposite, is to add extra functionality to the ATG via individual pitch manipulation.

What do you think? :)
AT200 with swapped ATG system with two encoders.

Windows 10 in a powerful desktop PC

#2 Mark R

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Posted 19 August 2015 - 02:06 PM

Hi Sacco

Sounds interesting. One question 1st: have you tried varying the pitch with a series of CC messages?

I tried briefly, but got lots of glitch noises. Maybe it's just my midi setup.

Mark

#3 Sacco

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Posted 19 August 2015 - 04:19 PM

I get the infamous tick noises...I just ordered some copper tape and I'm gonna shield everything I can and tell if there was an improvement.

Did you already try that?
AT200 with swapped ATG system with two encoders.

Windows 10 in a powerful desktop PC

#4 Sacco

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Posted 20 August 2015 - 01:28 AM

While working on my VST I heard ticks each time I changed something. Then I've put the guitar in my lap and now the ticking sound disappeared.

Then I've put the guitar on it's stand and the ticking is still gone.....huh??

I even put the audio jack cable and the midi cable close, touching together and the ticking is still gone.

I still have no clue about the origins of it....seems like I did something in my implementation that helped with those....or I somehow discharged some voltage collected somewhere in the guitar by putting it on my lap.

SHeesh!

I'm gonna tape all these cables with copper tape THEN plastic isolation and see what happens.

The VST is going very well, I could do "TUNE" "SOLID TUNE" and "TUNING" succesfully.

The UI background sucks, I must change that later to a fancy one with a cool image ;-) I have experience on that as I released several VSTs in the past (Klanglabs, anyone heard of "Vokko" or "Stompbud"?)

The text is also gonna be replaced with antialiased text in photoshop as part of the background.

The plugin....for now, is gonna be only for PC and 32bit ....There is a way to export MAC VSTs and also PC64bit VST but the problem is the modules I'm using in synthedit don't exist in 64bit. So you must use a 32bit<->64bit bridge (Jbridge)

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AT200 with swapped ATG system with two encoders.

Windows 10 in a powerful desktop PC

#5 Sacco

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Posted 20 August 2015 - 01:58 AM

Aha! now I get it!

As I read in the At200 forums regarding this, if you crank the volume pot in the guitar the MIDI ticks disappear.

Try this:

1) Put the volume of your sound system (monitors/amp) at a normal "play" volume, not too loud tho.

2) Put the volume pot on your guitar at 90%

3) Move the bend slider on the Autotune App.

You should hear the MIDI ticks pretty clear.

4) Now crank the volume all the way up on the guitar pot.

5) Move the bend slider again. No ticks!!

I still wonder why were they so freaking loud this afternoon and now they're not as loud even if I set the pot at 90%...or maybe is my imagination.

Well...that solved it for me :D

Note that you can hear the ticks even if the ATG system is turned off (tune switch up) and the volume pot all the way up! IMPORTANT: the ticks will be totally gone (at least here at decent volume) if the ATG system is running and the pot at max.

I'm no expert but it sounds like some EMI bleeding from the MIDI cable to the audio cable (or volume pot assembly) only if the volume is set to a lower value (so is like the electrons like to migrate from the MIDI cable/port to the vol circuit if the vol has not such amount of them flowing so it attracts the ones from the MIDI cables...I bet if I had some sort of "electricity camera" I could see a wide arc of small electric particles (the midi ticks) going from the cables to the other cables as I lower the volume.
AT200 with swapped ATG system with two encoders.

Windows 10 in a powerful desktop PC

#6 Mark R

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Posted 20 August 2015 - 03:01 PM

Thanks, I'll try it once I get my new computer running.

Not being able to use the volume knob is a bit crap, so I'm going to try & find a fix. I'll try soldering the earth wire, separating the midi & other wires, maybe add some shielding too.

I'd be interested if anyone has any more tips for reducing the noises.

#7 Sacco

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Posted 20 August 2015 - 03:05 PM

Quote

Not being able to use the volume knob is a bit crap

At least is something :D you can also use a vol pedal instead of the vol pot. I have an ernie ball and also my Zoom G5 comes with a pedal. So no big deal for me.

Quote

I'll try soldering the earth wire, separating the midi & other wires

Which ones exactly?

I'll keep you informed if I got any improvement after shielding with copper tape.
AT200 with swapped ATG system with two encoders.

Windows 10 in a powerful desktop PC

#8 Sacco

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Posted 31 August 2015 - 11:48 PM

Well...shielding the MIDI cables and some of the audio cables for the plug with copper tape didn't help at all :D
AT200 with swapped ATG system with two encoders.

Windows 10 in a powerful desktop PC

#9 wildfolk

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Posted 22 October 2015 - 08:36 PM

View PostSacco, on 20 August 2015 - 01:58 AM, said:


I'm no expert but it sounds like some EMI bleeding from the MIDI cable to the audio cable (or volume pot assembly) only if the volume is set to a lower value (so is like the electrons like to migrate from the MIDI cable/port to the vol circuit if the vol has not such amount of them flowing so it attracts the ones from the MIDI cables...I bet if I had some sort of "electricity camera" I could see a wide arc of small electric particles (the midi ticks) going from the cables to the other cables as I lower the volume.

Hi Sacco,

I am using a behringer fcb1010 to control a new set up on midi designer pro which allows the same kind of pedal function as the atg floor unit as well as changing banks and expression pedal functions on my digitech gsp1101.
I have been experiencing very low ticking even at full volume especially with clean guitar sounds.

Your hypothesis of emi bleeding seems correct. I am able to minimise the ticking if I use a 5 pin midi to the breakout box along with the 1/4 inch jack, stay at full volume and use batteries to power the at200. I haven't gone as far cutting the audio wire between the pot and midi but since this doesn't seem to work I think minimising the ticking by degrees might be the best we can get.

I might get bolder and try some shielding and also spreading out the wires but I have a knack of breaking everything when I open up the insides ( tried to put an uno chip in the fcb1010 and almost broke both chips)

Good luck



#10 Sacco

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Posted 22 October 2015 - 10:52 PM

Hmm... here using only batteries and the normal guitar plug worked fine.....I mean, as long as the volume pot is at 100% there is no ticking whatsoever, even at high volumes.

I'm not a metal guy so I probably never tested with lots of gain, I'm gonna see that.

Shielding didn't to anything, so I won't suggest to do it.

At this point I think it might be something on the board....but I don't care as much anymore.
AT200 with swapped ATG system with two encoders.

Windows 10 in a powerful desktop PC





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