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just received the at200 guitar - here are some comments, some feedback and i would appreciate some suggestions


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#1 aombk

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Posted 03 September 2015 - 12:22 PM

just received the at200 guitar three days ago.

there are things i like and things i dont like.

- i dont like the pickup selector. its the cheapest i have ever touched and it is ugly too. i will change it. can you suggest any selector? any 3 way selector would do?

- i want to try a magnetic hex pickup too and then choose between the two solutions.
do you sell the magnetic hex pickup from the Custom Installation Kit separately?
can you suggest a brand?
does the board on at200 support magnetic hex pickups?
do i need an additional powerboard for the magnetic hex pickup?
can i use just the roland gk-kit-gt3 magnetic hex pickup on the antares board?

- i dont like the guitar software situation. the factory guitar features are severely crippled so Software Feature Packs can be sold.
but even when we pay the additional $200 we still get very few features.
what is the point to restrict features like tunings, doubling and virtual capo range?
modeling a guitar needs additional careful work from you. thats something you could charge for.
but what if we want to slightly alter the model?
why cant we finetune one of the models to our taste?
peavey revalver 4 Audio Cloning Technology offers much more in guitar modeling and also models amps, cabs, pedals and effects. and it costs only $99
i also like the line6 Variax Workbench HD approach much better. not the GUI aspect of it(i actually hate that). but the features it offers are nice. it offers the ability to mess with the guitar in many ways.
maybe im wrong but from what i understand, guitar modeling is just an extreme EQ (in the form of an impulse response maybe?) but anyway, why cant we fiddle with it? not graphically but with an EQ for example. why cant we the customers create guitar models and share them with each other?

it would be great if you could create a nice new tool (just like your other nice vocal processing tools) for this amazing autotune for guitar technology offering a complete set of features (not just some presets).
please offer a way to setup the boards on the guitar and on the foot pedal to our taste and then charge for it. please dont charge us just for unlocking some features and installing some presets.

also let me remind you. the guitar functioning as a midi controller will be a great feature.

hoping for a reply.
thanks

#2 trevor

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Posted 03 September 2015 - 04:14 PM

View Postaombk, on 03 September 2015 - 12:22 PM, said:

just received the at200 guitar three days ago.

there are things i like and things i dont like.

- i dont like the pickup selector. its the cheapest i have ever touched and it is ugly too. i will change it. can you suggest any selector? any 3 way selector would do?

- i want to try a magnetic hex pickup too and then choose between the two solutions.
do you sell the magnetic hex pickup from the Custom Installation Kit separately?
can you suggest a brand?
does the board on at200 support magnetic hex pickups?
do i need an additional powerboard for the magnetic hex pickup?
can i use just the roland gk-kit-gt3 magnetic hex pickup on the antares board?

- i dont like the guitar software situation. the factory guitar features are severely crippled so Software Feature Packs can be sold.
but even when we pay the additional $200 we still get very few features.
what is the point to restrict features like tunings, doubling and virtual capo range?
modeling a guitar needs additional careful work from you. thats something you could charge for.
but what if we want to slightly alter the model?
why cant we finetune one of the models to our taste?
peavey revalver 4 Audio Cloning Technology offers much more in guitar modeling and also models amps, cabs, pedals and effects. and it costs only $99
i also like the line6 Variax Workbench HD approach much better. not the GUI aspect of it(i actually hate that). but the features it offers are nice. it offers the ability to mess with the guitar in many ways.
maybe im wrong but from what i understand, guitar modeling is just an extreme EQ (in the form of an impulse response maybe?) but anyway, why cant we fiddle with it? not graphically but with an EQ for example. why cant we the customers create guitar models and share them with each other?

it would be great if you could create a nice new tool (just like your other nice vocal processing tools) for this amazing autotune for guitar technology offering a complete set of features (not just some presets).
please offer a way to setup the boards on the guitar and on the foot pedal to our taste and then charge for it. please dont charge us just for unlocking some features and installing some presets.

also let me remind you. the guitar functioning as a midi controller will be a great feature.

hoping for a reply.
thanks
Wow, that's one half empty cup.
1) I suggest you open the cavity and see what you're dealing with, you're not going to just swap out the switch, it is multi-MULTI function.
2) the peavey guitar will accept hex pickups, but you'll have to frankenstein it yourself,there will be no "plug and play" hex addon.
I bought my AT200 used, already modded by the first owner with a mini-humbucker and hex epoxied into the plastic housing, there are none of the palm mute issues, but again he cut all the wires and soldered insulated new ones in.
3) As to not liking the software solution, how else were they to do it and still recoup all that's been put into it?Also a great way to keep people from reverse engineering the stuff.
4) All the extras (IMO) are just that, you don't need them, what you're buying is the auto-tune tech, and it works wonderfully.I can hear that it's not as dynamic, I can hear that it's not as big, but it stays in tune.My suggestion for your concerns there is a good pre,  and or learn to live with what it is and isn't.They may still yet make it sound big and organic as analog.
5) I have a feeling to do midi as well would require another board, may as well buy an outboard.

At some point I plan on making a pigtail off the little board in the Peavey, so I can plug any of my hex equipped guitar into that board.Or if you solder, pull the guts, and make a foot pedal that any hex equipped guitar could plug into.It's doable, but again, open that cavity, and see how small the stuff is.

#3 aombk

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Posted 03 September 2015 - 08:56 PM

thanks for the reply trevor.

you got me wrong, autotune and solid tune are great. i really like them, otherwise i would have returned the guitar.
i already opened the cavity before starting this topic. the pickup selector doesnt look complicated but sure looks very cheap. i attach photos. i cant believe they use such a cheap selector.

http://aombk.attinom.net/at200/1.jpg
http://aombk.attinom.net/at200/2.jpg
http://aombk.attinom.net/at200/3.jpg
http://aombk.attinom.net/at200/4.jpg
http://aombk.attinom.net/at200/5.jpg
http://aombk.attinom.net/at200/6.jpg

can you describe and maybe photograph your modded magnetic hex at200 and its electronics?

the software could be much better. nothing to do with reverse engineering the technology. the chips on the board do all the work. the software would just control parameters, not contain sophisticated algorithms etc.
take a look at line6 Variax Workbench HD.

i on the other hand, have a feeling that midi is just some lines of code away (and lots of fine-tuning) but i could be wrong.

#4 Henrik

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Posted 03 September 2015 - 09:39 PM

View Postaombk, on 03 September 2015 - 12:22 PM, said:

just received the at200 guitar three days ago.

there are things i like and things i dont like.

- i dont like the pickup selector. its the cheapest i have ever touched and it is ugly too. i will change it. can you suggest any selector? any 3 way selector would do?

- i want to try a magnetic hex pickup too and then choose between the two solutions.
do you sell the magnetic hex pickup from the Custom Installation Kit separately?
can you suggest a brand?
does the board on at200 support magnetic hex pickups?
do i need an additional powerboard for the magnetic hex pickup?
can i use just the roland gk-kit-gt3 magnetic hex pickup on the antares board?

- maybe im wrong but from what i understand, guitar modeling is just an extreme EQ (in the form of an impulse response maybe?) but anyway, why cant we fiddle with it? not graphically but with an EQ for example. why cant we the customers create guitar models and share them with each other?

- also let me remind you. the guitar functioning as a midi controller will be a great feature.


Aombk,

1.  The pickup selector does require a dual functioning switch that can handle both the passive and the active wiring.  You cannot just put any 3-way angled switch in the guitar.  The switch used in the ATG Custom Installation Kits is the following: http://www.onlinecom...html?p=12318460

2.  Were you to put a hexaphonic magnetic pickup on your AT-200 guitar, you would more likely encounter a hardware issue with the input on the DSP board.  The AT-200 DSP 3 board is set up for piezo pickups and the DSP 4 board in the ATG Luthier Kit is set up for magnetic hex pickups.  Having said that, it does appear that a few AT-200 users have successfully installed hex pickups and made it work.  This is indeed surprising!

3. Our modeling is physical modeling and not and extreme EQ or sample based.

4. Yes, we are very aware of that MIDI Out would be a very nice feature.  It might be possible, although the work needed is perhaps a little more than "just some lines of code away."  In all seriousness, this is something we are looking into to see if it can be done correctly.

#5 trevor

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Posted 04 September 2015 - 01:30 AM

View Postaombk, on 03 September 2015 - 08:56 PM, said:

thanks for the reply trevor.

you got me wrong, autotune and solid tune are great. i really like them, otherwise i would have returned the guitar.
i already opened the cavity before starting this topic. the pickup selector doesnt look complicated but sure looks very cheap. i attach photos. i cant believe they use such a cheap selector.

http://aombk.attinom.net/at200/1.jpg
http://aombk.attinom.net/at200/2.jpg
http://aombk.attinom.net/at200/3.jpg
http://aombk.attinom.net/at200/4.jpg
http://aombk.attinom.net/at200/5.jpg
http://aombk.attinom.net/at200/6.jpg

can you describe and maybe photograph your modded magnetic hex at200 and its electronics?

the software could be much better. nothing to do with reverse engineering the technology. the chips on the board do all the work. the software would just control parameters, not contain sophisticated algorithms etc.
take a look at line6 Variax Workbench HD.

i on the other hand, have a feeling that midi is just some lines of code away (and lots of fine-tuning) but i could be wrong.

I agree the parts are cheap, they cut every corner they could in the guitar itself, I had to lap the bridge, as it was bowed and only connected to the body at points instead of one flat block, I still need to do a level and crown.
The pickup, nothing to see really as the previous owner did a pro job, it's all epoxied into the original peavey plastic humbucker housing, all you see out the back is the leads; if you can find pics on the net there was a hex hum combo called "Soundgarage", the same basic idea, take a single space mini humbucker, and a hex, epoxy them into a humbucker  housing.He cut the leads to the piezo saddles, wrapped them nicely, then soldered the leads to the DIY to the cut wires.I then shaved a little insulation off the sides of the hex leads, and spliced in a midi guitar system that had a faulty hex pickup, so the AT200 and a midi system are working off the same mag hex.It's heavy duty fun.

#6 aombk

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Posted 06 September 2015 - 06:21 PM

trevor,

your guitar sounds very very interesting. i may try doing something similar at some point. it definitely sounds like heavy duty fun!
i was thinking that choosing between piezo or magnetic hex pickup should be done using a switch.

Henrik,

does antares care to help its customers mod their product?
why shall i encounter a hardware issue?
piezo and magnetic hex pickups have different output voltages?
do hex pickups need some sort of power or amplification or added resistance or something?

about your modeling being physical modeling and not and extreme EQ or sample based, maybe it makes no difference.
surely your equations and algorithms cam accept some amount of parameters and variables finetuning by the user.

Henrik, i meant no disrespect by the "just some lines of code away" phrase.

i am very pro open source. i am actively involved in a couple of open source projects. like this for example https://www.apertus.org/
to me, your product is a complete black box. i try to avoid products like this in general.
on the other hand, i dont know how this product sells. i hope it does sell well. i am just wondering, since this system is really great, literally a step forward in the (very old indeed) guitar realm, why doesn't everybody have a guitar with this system installed on?
this system, from what i have seen, gets negative or neutral reviews, and only very few positive ones.
friends and people i talk to about it sound very mistrusting. they are sure they wont like it when they see/hear it. (some people argue it will make guitarist forget how to tune a guitar!) people dont understand what it does and dont trust it.
(line6 offering a somewhat similar product, although lacking autotune and solidtune, faces similar mistrusting and problematic attitude)

generally speaking, opening a black box up (to the degree you decide) tends to solve problems like that.
also you form a community of users/developers that make breakthroughs and with your help, they make your product do things you didnt even imagined.
additionally happy developers and happy users advertise your product for you.

for example, just take a look at the magic lantern project http://www.magiclantern.fm/ and look for articles on how so many happy users made canon sales dramatically boost through their work and word of mouth.

ps. i dont demand anything, i just express my views and opinions.

#7 aombk

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Posted 07 September 2015 - 12:12 PM

another thing. the autotune system has quite some white noise hiss compared to the magnetic pickups. i attach a file. change from magnetic to piezo happens at third seccond. is this normal? have other people witnessed this?





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